2 Shops - 1 Paypal account - how to route the IPN setting to both shops?

fileeefileee Member
in Bugs & Feature Requests edited September 2016
[FYI: I'm referencing to this documentation https://wiki.foxycart.com/gateways/paypal/express_checkout]

So we have 2 Shops (that might be already the problem, but stick with me and assume that is needed for now). As a company we have one paypal account, but of course want to be able to accept payments via paypal in both shops. Unfortunately paypal only allows you to have one Instant Payment Notification (IPN) url. (we would need to add both urls shopA.foxycart.com & shopB.foxycart.com into it).

Apart from the option to migrate to one shop or create another paypal account(need to see if this is a valid option in terms of legal aspects etc.), there are two options on foxycards side to support this and i wanted to ask what you think about it

Option 1 - Implement middleware to broadcast a request from Paypal to both urls on foxycards side. So we will enter something like "ourserver.com/api/shop" into paypals IPN setting and this route will broadcast the request 1:1 to both foxycart urls. Do you think that could be problematic (as only one shop would actually have the valid transaction fullfilled) ?

Option 2 - As stated in this forum post on paypal(https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Selling-on-your-website/Setting-up-multiple-IPN-s/td-p/397504?profile.language=en-gb) you could also dynamically set the IPN url from your system. In this case not only would the paypal setup get easier(as the store owner would not need to add the IPN url into paypal) but also it would automatically solve our use case, as now each shop would automatically redirect to the correct url. However, i don't know how complicated this is on your end and of course how well it works in practice.
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  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    Really interesting question! I believe I have some good news for you too - in that we're already passing the NotifyURL setting that you described in option 2 with our latest PayPal integration that your store is using. I've done some digging in PayPal's docs, and from what I've read I believe that setting should overwrite anything you have set on the IPN setting within your PayPal account- whether that's disabling the IPN completely or setting it to a different URL.

    In theory then, you should be able to set the IPN on your account to disabled, or to the main store URL - and then the individual payment requests will specify the relative store IPN url in that NotifyURL parameter and it should all work accordingly.

    To be clear though - this isn't something we've actively tested ourselves, but with what I've read you should be good to go.
  • great i will test it and report back
  • fileeefileee Member
    edited September 2016
    I think the IPN Setting works, at least now i'm able to proceed to paypal from the checkout. I needed to remove the existing IPN setting(so after final confirmation you could actually remove this step too from the documentation).

    However i was not able to test it finally, because unfortunately here in Germany you cannot easily activate reference transactions(i think this is even the case in the whole EU). Because of some money protection laws you need to have at least 25000€ worth in sales per Month.

    Now paypal told me there are other solutions that could fullfill the need of reoccuring payments, that don't have this limitation. I guess you are not supporting those, but wanted to address this with you anyway. Maybe you have another good news for me ;P

    The solution paypal is suggesting is to use "PayPal Preapproved Payments". https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/adaptive-payments/ht_ap-basicPreapproval-curl-etc/
  • and will i'm at it. there is also https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/express-checkout/ht_ec-recurringPaymentProfile-curl-etc/ - i cannot really see how it fits inside here(and whether it has the same limitation), but it seems to also fullfill the requirements from a technical standpoint right?
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    Unfortunately we don't currently support PayPal's preapproved payments set up. It could be a solution, but from reading over it it doesn't sound like it would be a great solution for subscriptions generally. It looks like it's more suited to situations where you have a set payment plan that needs to be captured. For stores that want to have a sub that continues indefinitely, that might not be a great solution.

    The second link is also for recurring payments, but it results in the subscription being managed on PayPal's side. That's how our previous integration with PayPal worked, and it resulted in restrictions to the types of changes that you could make to subscriptions paid for through PayPal, compared to the changes you can make through FoxyCart usually when subs are paid by other payment methods. For example, easily changing the frequency, cart contents or next date of a sub.

    We moved to their Reference Transactions functionality as it allows the subscription to be managed on our side, giving the merchant the greatest flexibility in managing it. The restriction you noted about the required monthly income though does make it considerably harder to get an account! I'll discuss this with the team and we may also reach out to our PayPal rep for some more information on the requirements for our European merchants.
  • thx for your infos! but yes please ask your paypal rep, maybe you have more infos for me. i have my infos from paypal germany. this 25K€ requirement is basically because of the law requirement and i guess there is not much that paypal themself can do about it. I'm now trying to see if amazon has the same "problem" or not.

    I see that braintree or worldpay also offers paypal and in the case of braintree it seems they have their own "recurring" payments solution. But i guess your plugins are only limited to creditcard processing with these gateways is that right? Otherwise we could maybe also see if somehow they are working better.
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    That's correct - our integrations with Braintree and Worldpay are just for their direct credit card processing. I'll let you know if we hear any new information.
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    We heard back from our partner contacts at PayPal and they're not aware of any restrictions that require a certain amount of sales in order to have Reference Transactions enabled. Did you receive any written feedback from PayPal support in Germany that we could provide to our partner contacts for them to look into? If so, if you could email them into the helpdesk we'll dig in further with PayPal.
  • sure i just forwarded you the (german) email response. there is the name of the paypal employee who described the problem. i will now also try to get an english answer from her to sent it to you.
  • fileeefileee Member
    edited September 2016
    mhm the german email doesn't get through but anyway i got an english response and forwarded it to you. (hello@foxycart.com)
    BTW: The contact from paypal also told me that it highly likely the american Paypal guys doesn't know about this requirement in the same ways as the german paypal support doesn't know about the exact american requirements or local customizations. At the end they all act based on the local law. This limit we are talking about here is definitely true for switzerland, germany and austria.
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    Thanks for forwarding that - we'll follow up with our PayPal reps again to see if they have any further information. Based on what you sent, we may need to look at an alternative solution for users who run into this restriction. I'll discuss this with the team as well.
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    Quick update for you on this thread - we've added back in our older PayPal integration as a payment gateway option for FoxyCart stores. You'll see it listed at the bottom of the list as "PayPal (Legacy)". This method doesn't require Reference Transaction support to be enabled for your account, but also as mentioned earlier does restrict what management options you have within the FoxyCart administration for subscriptions.
  • Hey adam, that is a great news! Will definetly test this next week.
  • Hey adam, i just saw that there is also the option paypal plus(germany) listed now? Can you elaborate what this is and if we can use this for subscriptions? Any downsides?
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    We have recently added PayPal Plus as a gateway option - it's a new offering from PayPal that is currently available for German PayPal users (hence the specificity in the naming). You can see details on it from there website at http://www.paypal.de/paypal-plus. Unfortunately we don't support subscriptions with PayPal Plus.
  • No subscriptions? Ah too bad, because that would be exactly the reason to use it. There was even a Paypal Rep calling us today informing us that he could activate reoccuring payments with paypal plus for us.
  • However, we were also told that the paypal rep could maybe activate the reference transaction for us(suddenly they can?!). Will see if this is true. Fingers crossed, will report back if we have any news on that.
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    Interesting on both counts! When we were integrating with PayPal Plus we did specifically ask our reps about subscription support and the answer we received then was that it wasn't supported. We'll contact them again about that to re-confirm if that is the case still.

    Definitely let us know if they can activate RT for your account too - that would be great!
  • fc_adamfc_adam FoxyCart Team
    @fileee,

    I forgot to update this thread - we reached out to our PayPal Plus reps again and they confirmed that subscriptions are not possible with PayPal Plus.
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