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Large quantities produce a live shipping error

tpaytontpayton Member
in Help edited September 2009
I'm using live shipping updates via UPS, but when I get over say 10K items (these are just postcards that are being printed, just .01 lbs each so 10K really isn't that much) I get this error:

---
Error: This store has not been setup correctly to calculate shipping to this location. We apologize for the inconvenience. The store owner has been notified of this error. Undefined.
---

I have tried all the different UPS options. Any thoughts on how to fix this?

- T.

BTW. As the store owner I was not notified of the error.
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Comments
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Is there not an error in your store's error log? We don't send emails, but we should be updating that log for shipping errors. "Undefined" definitely doesn't sound right though so there may be something broken with how we're handling the error response back from UPS. What store version are you using (0.5.1)? You can find that on your "settings" tab in the FoxyCart admin.

    I just ran a test on our dev store with all of the UPS options selected, a 100lb product and "Customer Packaging" and got the following rates returned:
    UPS Ground $66.71
    UPS 3 Day Select $185.16
    UPS 2nd Day Air $297.20
    UPS Canada Saver $402.86
    UPS Next Day Air $411.51
    UPS Next Day Air Early AM $444.22

    Do you have a different packaging defined? I think some of their packaging definitions have a weight limit of 70lbs... though when I tried various packages it still worked. Could you send us an example link so we can take a look?
  • tpaytontpayton Member
    edited September 2009
    Luke,

    I am using store 5.1. UPS setup as "customer packaging". My cart is at onyourway.foxycart.com. Here is what it my log says:

    No Shipping Options Available

    shipping_state=LA shipping_postal_code=70815 shipping_country=US shipping_country_name=United States shipping_company= shipping_name=shipping_address=1234 Main St. NE shipping_address2= shipping_city=Yourville store_postal_code=76034 store_name=On Your Way store_state=TX store_country=US UOM_weight=LBS UOM_length=IN TotalWeight=200 HandlingFee=0 FlatRate=0 CustomsValue=0 ThisAction=GetShippingCost
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Ahh... your first example said 10,000 at .01 lbs which is 100lbs (which works just fine). If you try the same request you posted at UPS.com, you'll see this error message:

    >>> The maximum per package weight for the selected service from the selected country is 150 pounds.

    Now, that still doesn't explain why you got "Undefined" instead of a nice error like that. Now that I know how to reproduce the problem, we'll look into implementing a fix.

    btw, that is private customer data so you should edit your post and remove it as this is a public forum and that's not a whisper. :)

    Thanks for posting.
  • Luke,

    So do you think it is possible to have it automatically divide it up between 2 (or more) packages?

    - T.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    nope.

    :)

    Not with our currently functionality, but if you vote for "SuperShip" here, that is something you could request: http://requests.foxycart.com/pages/4162-general-requests/suggestions/33314-super-ship?ref=title

    Since each company handles their shipments differently, it's going to be quite a challenge for us to come up with a way to manage multiple shipments correctly for everyone. It's definitely a very real business need (especially when you factor in multiple drop-ship locations and 3rd party fulfillment centers) but it's not something we've started to tackle yet.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    We just rolled out a fix for how we're handling UPS error responses. They were not being logged in the store or displayed to the customer correctly and that has been corrected for store versions 040, 050 and 051.

    Thanks again for bringing it to our attention so we can improve FoxyCart.
  • Is there really no way to sell and ship more than 150 lbs of something?
  • tookingstookings Member
    edited September 2009
    @ruraldreams

    Well, UPS limits single package weight to 150lbs. Beyond that, for UPS, you need to either split up the order into multiple packages, use UPS Freight, or use a different shipper/freight service.

    Adding the capability to split up the shipments on a single order in foxycart, in an elegant and flexible way...will be quite an achievement for super-duper-ship. :)
  • Is there a way to break up the order into multiple boxes in the cart? If not, it prevents a user from purchasing large quantities.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Currently there is no way to do this. You may want to take advantage of the quantity_min product attribute and add some language to your site to explain to your customers that they may need to checkout twice if they have a very large order. Is this something that will happen often given your business model?
  • ruraldreamsruraldreams Member
    edited September 2009
    I'm afraid it will happen often and is a somewhat disastrous business requirements failure for us. Our client has a simple store, but is selling educational books and will often sell 100 at a time to a school district.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    There are some options for hacking flat rate shipping based on what's in the cart by modifying FC.checkout.config.orderFlatRateShipping, but those aren't officially supported. You may also be able to use the handling fee percentages to approximate your actual shipping costs. This can be tricky because if it's under 1.35 lbs (I think) media mail works which is super cheap, beyond that things can get expensive.

    If you had a way to setup a flat rate model, it would it work for you?
  • I'm not sure, will need to confer with the client and a programmer.
  • Luke, it seems like what some other carts do, including the client's current cart that I promised we'd be improving on, is have a setting for a maximum package weight -- then the total weight is broken up into boxes according to this setting. This doesn't seem like it would be so complicated - is it something you've considered for Foxycart? It's a lot simpler than most of what is being suggested in the Super Ship thread.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Can you expound a little on what you mean by "broken up into boxes"? Do you define a weight per box and then do a live rate request for one box and then multiply that rate by the total number of boxes? Or are you talking about a flat rate amount per box? How do you know how many items fit in a box, is it purely by weight or by dimension as well? Do you configure boxes by weight and dimension and each product by weight and dimension to figure out how many can fit in a box? If so, how?

    Thank for any input you have.
  • brettbrett FoxyCart Team
    Fwiw, @ruraldreams, we know this is lame, and improving shipping is VERY high on our priorities once we get our next release out the door.
  • Sorry it took me a while to reply, I wanted to make sure I understood the client's current system correctly before I posted.

    There is a field for maximum package weight, which they have set at 40lbs. They also have a field for maximum number of products per package which they have set at 16. In the current store they are only selling one product so I'm not sure if the products per package setting is per product or global. I'm also not sure how these settings interact with each other. They tell me that the shipping numbers produced are fairly accurate. The cart is Miva.

    I would think at the very least the client could have a field for maximum package weight so that if it's set to 40lbs, a 210lb order figures shipping for five 40lb boxes and one 10lb box. Not at all complicated - maybe not entirely accurate, but probably better than the system rejecting a several thousand dollar order.

    Thanks so much for your attention.
  • brettbrett FoxyCart Team
    We've been discussing this, and yes, it's definitely something we need to add. It _might_ be possible to hack it currently, and I'll whisper you a developer that might be willing to give it a go, but I'll be honest and say that it might be tricky.

    We know we need a lot of improvement in our shipping functionality, and we'll be working on them as soon as we are able.
  • I just read this thread and have a question:

    On my site, when a customer enters a shipment that would be > 150lbs, they get the following ugly message:
    Error: This store has not been setup correctly to calculate shipping to this location with this weight. We apologize for the inconvenience. The store owner has been notified of this error.
    UPS Error: The maximum per package weight for the selected service from the selected country is 150 pounds.
    It would be great if I could turn that into a custom message that works better for my business.
  • brettbrett FoxyCart Team
    You can change the first piece in your store's language section. The second, however, is what UPS returns, so we can't customize that.

    Does that help? I know it doesn't fix the problem, but at least you can make it friendlier.
  • I changed the language, thanks. Next question, though:

    the original message said " The store owner has been notified of this error." However, I'm not being notified of the error. How is this supposed to happen?

    Thanks
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    The "notification" is in the form of your store's error logs which we probably shouldn't assume everyone checks on a regular basis. We've talked about putting together some kind of notification system based on different levels of errors but our request board is filled with a lot more important things at the moment.
  • Gotcha.

    The problem, though, is that the error logs don't include any customer contact information. I can see that an order was too large (over 150lbs), but I have no way of finding the customer's e-mail nor phone number. All I can see is that there was a big order that was lost and there's nothing I can do to go get it!
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Some errors do, but others don't. The AJAX request being made to calculate shipping doesn't have that information in it so that information isn't logged. You may want to customize that language string in the admin (under language) to include your company contact information so they can process the order manually.
  • brettbrett FoxyCart Team
    @jwelevine: In case it's not clear, these issues really do bother us. Shipping is the next thing on our list after our upcoming release. Sorry, in the meantime. But like Luke said, if you customize that error string you can likely salvage those orders from here out.
  • Hi, I'm experiencing the same issue - my client ships wine. So if they have a commercial order with large quantities, an error message is generated telling the customer that the store is not setup to calculate shipping. Has this been resolved yet, as this is a huge issue for them. If it has not been solved, can anyone please suggest how best to handle this in the interim? I really need a solution as soon as possible. thank you so much!
  • It seems that it shouldn't be so hard, in the javascript, to detect the condition that no live shipping rates were successfully determined, and in that case, to allow a "flat" shipping cost that's either a genuine flat rate, or a percent of the order total, or a function of the weight.

    I get how to add a flat rate shipping option if the weight is over 150 Lbs, but I don't see (and perhaps it's obvious) how to detect if *no* live rates are returned. Perhaps one of you fine foxy folks would be kind enough to provide a "stub" for doing this?

    (Separate topic, but it *would* also make sense to support a "fallback" rate like that from within the foxy admin.)
  • I was just thinking the same thing as oskay, because I figured my client could come up with a shipping amount that they would be happy to send a large shipment for. I'm using Fed Ex live shipping rates, and apparently, if the weight goes over 150lbs, the shipment is considered freight, which has different rates. So my client would either use that, or split up the shipment at their discretion. either way, the Foxy Cart setup at the moment seems to prevent the customer from completing their purchase. Obviously, this is a huge issue - and would impact the biggest purchases, whose cart quantities would reach the weight limits.
  • lukeluke FoxyCart Team
    Take a look at this and see if it helps: http://forum.foxycart.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3479

    One option would be to inspect what has been returned via the ajax call and make a decision there, one of which could be to inject your own custom flat rate radio button. As long as it is formatted correctly like one FoxyCart returns, it should work correctly though the description may not show up in the receipts correctly.
  • >One option would be to inspect what has been returned via the ajax call

    How would you do that?

    Adding a custom flat rate solves one other big problem besides the over-weight problem, which is the occasional case where live shipping quotes are not working for whatever reason. (It's bitten us a few times.)
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